[topdog91]

Hi all, great to meet you. I hope this is the right place for newbie questions.

Party cover band guitarist here. I'm a refugee from another cross-platform setlist helper app which is buggy and seemingly unmaintained. I spent a couple of hours last night reassociating Dropbox files with songs in the app when I should have been practicing and time is precious. I work in tech and all software has bugs but it's kind of beyond the pale so I'm looking at other options. Before I write my own (always a last resort), I've heard good things about MobileSheets and it doesn't have an obnoxious subscription model... Of course there's a lot of friction moving hundreds of songs between apps so I'd like to ask some questions before I dive in.

My charts aren't notation (well I am a guitarist ); rather a mish-mash of chord reminders, explanations, and the odd bit of tab here and there. Cobbled together from my transcriptions and things that I find online to save time if I'm in a rush at the expense of ear training. I've never explored ChordPro and I've always just created each chart in Google Docs where I can use consistent formatting. The other app only synced with Dropbox so I'd then have to export a PDF and copy to Dropbox.

I guess a picture tells a thousand words, so feel free to take a look at my charts here. Everything from 2024 is in some level of use, and everything is subject to continuous improvement depending on factors such as if I need to add stuff to play the song better, if I have time to simplify a chart where I copied some tab, if I have time to correct stuff that needs it (but I know when I see it it's wrong and how to play it correctly) etc etc.

Aside: Should I explore ChordPro? I don't generally need lyrics in my charts and I don't write the whole chart verbatim, rather I keep it as minimal as I can. I play by ear and know most song structures so I just write "repeat verse with funky bits" or whatever, any hints I need for things I might forget. I like the rich text of Google Docs and the fact that if I'm  stretched for time, I can copy and paste an image of tab or a chord diagram or whatever into the document. Would ChordPro make transposing easier? Currently if I do the same song in two bands in different keys I duplicate the file and edit it.

Anyway, the main thing I wanted to ask was about the band functionality. Currently:

• I have the above setup. I'm actually an Android / open source person at heart but using an iPad Pro for music as I assumed (sigh) the music apps would be better and it's nice and large so I can bolt it to my mic stand and read comfortably when I need to. With hindsight, both my current app and MobileSheets seem to be quite Android-centric with iOS as an afterthought (at least on the current app). Donner page turner pedal.
  
• Keyboard player uses an iPad Air, not sure what app. He sight reads notation and knows the songs etc.
  
• Bassist more like me in that he plays by ear and has been in the band 25 years so it's only recently that he's brought out (paper) charts for some of the newer songs.
  
• Drummer reads the paper set list, not currently using a click but happy to embrace technology.
  
• Ditto singer but bit more technophobic.
  

I've read the docs but can't take it all in just from reading. What I'd like to understand is if one of us creates a set list for a gig and shares it, can each of us upload our own charts to be viewed during the gig?

For example:
Song 1: The Boys Are Back In Town
Somehow I upload my crib sheet, bassist uploads his crib sheet, keyboard player uploads his proper notation, then during the gig each of us sees the relevant upload?

If we can, how would it work if I play that song in another band? Do I need to enter two separate songs in the database:

• The Boys Are Back In Town (Band 1)
  
• The Boys Are Back In Town (Band 2)
  

Same question if the two bands play the songs in different keys; that's what I'd do now.

If we can't, does the band synchronization feature rely on everyone reading the same chart for a given song?

I'm sure I have other questions but lets's start there.

[Zubersoft]

I think ChordPro is a great option, as you can easily transpose, and there are a lot of great features, but I'm currently lacking a few features you would probably want access to including the ability to display chord diagrams and insert images. You can insert images using the annotation editor though, but that takes a few extra steps, so you'd have to gauge whether this is worth it compared to your current approach.

With hindsight, both my current app and MobileSheets seem to be quite Android-centric with iOS as an afterthought (at least on the current app)

The reason for this is I wanted a consistent UI across all platforms so that users on each platform can easily work together. Often users need to teach other users about features in the app, and if the UI wasn't consistent across Android and iOS, this would most likely cause struggles for users in this situation. I do have some iOS-specific functionality though, such as being able to two finger drag on lists to select multiple entries, drag entries right/left to reveal actions, etc.

What I'd like to understand is if one of us creates a set list for a gig and shares it, can each of us upload our own charts to be viewed during the gig?

Yes, you can absolutely do that. The "Connect Tablets" feature matches on song titles by default, but it won't care about the underlying file matching. You can also configure it to match on other fields such as Custom if desired. So each user would just need to import the PDF for their instrument, and ensure the song title that is used matches everyone else.

I should mention that you can set up multiple libraries/databases (Settings->Library Settings->Switch Library) which can be useful when working with multiple bands, but you will want to make sure to use unique filenames across bands to avoid file conflicts. I currently don't support an option to isolate storage (i.e. use a different subdirectory) per library, so that's why each file has to have a unique name. An option to isolate storage is going to be added very soon, as I know a fair number of users want that.

Let me know if you have more questions.

Mike

[topdog91]

Thanks Mike for the comprehensive and interesting reply. I've been playing with the Android trial version and so far I like it, it manages to be fairly intuitive whilst providing a lot of power which is no mean feat.

From your description, I'm not sure we would be ready to deploy band-wise just yet but it could get there. I guess one change would be instead of having my own cloud storage for files, I'd have separate cloud storage per band and so would every band member who could upload charts as they wished?

I guess it would be annoying to have to load "The Boys Are Back In Town - G.pdf" x times for x different bands. In fact (and I am confused now), why would we need separate storage per band? If I understood your comment correctly, tablets sync on song names but every band member uploads charts to their own storage?

Another question which is slightly related. As ChordPro doesn't yet do what I need, how should I handle a given song in more than one key for different bands? I found an old forum thread about the intent to allow "versions" of songs but I am not sure if if was even implemented.

I guess that would also have an impact with tablet sharing and everyone needing to be synced on the song title. If different keys mean different songs, that would potentially cause a problem because I'd have "The Boys Are Back In Town - G" but the drummer would have "The Boys Are Back In Town".

I'm super-tired so forgive me if these questions are too silly or not thought through.

PS It would be awesome if the forum was mobile-responsive.

[Zubersoft]

You wouldn't have to load the same PDF over and over unless you setup a different library per band. If you instead just put your songs into collections for each band, then you can just filter on collection to only see the songs related to that band. You can add the same song to multiple collections if it's used by multiple bands.

The "Connect Tablets" feature will match on song title when matching up songs to load, but every band member has to set up their library independently, and can import whatever PDF they want.

Song versioning is not available yet - it's slated for some time next year, as it will be an extremely large and complicated update. You will create one song in the library per key, so I would recommend assigning unique titles for each key to make it easy to manage everything.

If the song titles won't match, then match on another field such as the "Custom" field or "Song ID" field. You can just assign a unique number to each song.

As far as the forum being mobile-responsive - I'm waiting on myBB to release their next big update which has been underway for many years which will support a mobile-responsive default theme. In the meantime, you can switch the theme using the dropdown at the far bottom right to Duende v3 (responsive) which should work a little nicer on phones.

Mike

[IanMSpencer]

My recent experience of adopting MobileSheets is as a bassist and guitarist across 3 covers bands sharing some songs plus my personal interests. I use some full bass transcriptions from UltimateGuitar Official, have a lot of short hand tabs in Word, and Word guitar chord sheets sourced from the band leader and then some stuff which is handwritten. I've compressed about 12 A4 binders into one tablet, 1000 tabs.

The process I used was to write a Word macro to generate PDFs which covered the bulk of my stuff, then printed UltimateGuitar stuff to PDF. A bit of scanning. That got me up and running. I used the custom field to identify the instrument the tab was for, and the collection to identify which band(s) the tab was for (a certain amount of crossover, but different arrangements and keys). I used OneDrive as I drifted into using it - I've found Google Drive a bit flaky (not specifically with MobileSheets) and of course being an office user drives you down the OneDrive route. As I have a very fast connection (900Mb up and down) anything I do on my PC is pretty much instantly available on the tablet via OneDrive, so new songs I print to an appropriate tab folder and then pick them up on the tablet.

It is quick and easy to knock up set lists, especially using the collection and instrument filter. I've not shared with bandmates, but for bass I use a completely different sheet from the other guys, whereas I could work with a shared sheet on guitar but bandmates are still in the world of paper. Another of my bands is really a scratch band on the night which relies on us preparing independently so sharing doesn't make any sense.

I found the highlighting and editing a little quirky to start with, but now my head is in the zone, it is easy enough - it is odd that for some things tablets are easier to work with but the limitations of the screen control are nicely worked around. There were only a handful of songs that needed it. Fortunately, most of our covers are fairly authentic.

I started using the song notes feature for setup (for bass Tone, Neck/bridge, finger/pick, Overdrive, Mute), but found the pop-up too irritating, so now I just have bold text at the top of the song, which turned out to be really quick to type once Android autofill got the drift.

The Companion backup feature is quick and easy and I used the Companion for the initial clean-up of song titles and collections, but mainly the tablet is easy to work with for odds and ends.

[Lester]

Hey topdog91, it seemes more sensible to answer your questions here than back on the guitar forum.

As for Google Docs format, I  cannot find in the MobileSheets User Guide that it can import the Google format, so I do as IanMSpencer does and save songs as PDFs.

As you are currently saving songs on Google Drive, I would stick with that, just using PDFs.

Sorry, I have not looked at ChordPro so cannot help there.

Donner page turner pedal. I have a different pedal but I find it works equally well with iOS and Android.

You asked: if one of us creates a set list for a gig and shares it, can each of us upload our own charts to be viewed during the gig? My band has space on Google Drive and anyone can upload their PDFs which can then be seen and downloaded by all band members, regardless of which OS they use.

You asked: Somehow I upload my crib sheet, bassist uploads his crib sheet, keyboard player uploads his proper notation, then during the gig each of us sees the relevant upload? In my band's case, we can all see the shared Google Drive space so everyone can see all the uploads. It takes an agreed naming convention for it to work. I manage the space so tend to do some housekeeping when someone has misspelled or otherwise not followed our agreed naming format.

You asked: how would it work if I play that song in another band? I add what is necessary to the filename as it is immediately visible but Mike has mentioned above how you can use the naming and filtering options within MobileSheets.

You asked: does the band synchronization feature rely on everyone reading the same chart for a given song? In my band the answer is yes but that's because My wife (piano) and I (drums) have transcribed all the songs as lead sheets (melody, chords, lyrics) so we don't yet have anyone wanting other information. I add my comments to help me within MobileSheets. I have come to really appreciate the ability to add comments (and sometimes to mark things that need correcting).

Lester (Whistler on thefretboard.co.uk)

[IanMSpencer]

To give you an idea, here is how I have dealt with variations. 

With Heartbeat I may play the same songs on guitar or bass depending on who is available, (we might be a 4 or 5 piece).
I've used Collection to associate any piece with the bands I play that arrangement with, and though I haven't entirely cleaned up, I try and use the Key field for when I have multiple keys with different bands (or the same band if the singer varies) and the instrument. Note I have altered the presentation to highlight the instrument (custom field) so it all fits together. So to put together a song list, I get a truncated version by band collection and instrument, which might be about 100 songs, which is quite manageable against a set list of say 35 songs. Do You Love Me?, for example, use the same chord sheet for bass and guitar because actually I just know it on bass and really I'm just noting my settings.

I've not crossed the bridge of sharing with other band members but I think you would need to assign different keys or versions to different song numbers so only matching key and version can come up.

   

[samibe]

While the song versioning would be amazing, I think I could almost replicate it with a few more custom groups. I've already started using the albums group this way for some things. 
Currently, I use the albums field to list what book the song is from, what recorded album it was released on, what movie or show it's from (for soundtracks and scores), what suite or opus it's from (for classical works), or what the tune name is (for hymns and folk songs).
If I had an extra custom group, I could name it something like "unique songs" or "versions" and group different versions of the same song under the same song entry (even if it might be titled differently). This would allow me to simplify the 'albums' information and find all of the versions of different songs I have.

[topdog91]

Hey all, just wanted to say thanks a lot for the detailed responses. I think I understood most of what you said and I'll keep coming back because I made the purchase (woo hoo!) and will give it a go, it looks promising. Our next gig is on New Year's Eve so I have enough time to get set up (in the other app as well as a safety net).

So far I've imported my PDF library and am going through the song metadata.

An example filename would be "The Boys Are Back In Town - Thin Lizzy - G.pdf". Title is imported as "The Boys Are Back In Town - Thin Lizzy - G". I'm changing Title to be just the song title i.e. "The Boys Are Back In Town" and entering the band name as "Thin Lizzy" and the key as "G". I also fill in the length which is useful for measuring set list length and the tempo in the event we ever use a click or I need a hint, even though I'm usually pretty good at tempos.

I think I saw differing advice above regarding the same song in two different keys. Assume two different PDFs. Should these be entered as two different songs? With the key in the title e.g. "The Boys Are Back In Town - G" and the key field? Or just in the key field but leave the title plain i.e. "The Boys Are Back In Town"?

One other thing; I don't have charts for all songs, say Echo Beach. In the other app, when I get to Echo Beach in the set list, it at least says Echo Beach (Am) at the top (as I have put the key in the title). In this app it seems that I have to enter a blank page explicitly, but then when I go through the set as if I was performing, it's just a blank page with no song metadata. What's the best way to handle this?

Edit: Two more questions:
1. Is there a way to enter an original key for transposed songs, or perhaps have a field that indicates if the song is in the original key? Probably not much practical usage but I've always indicated that in song titles in the past.
2. Is it possible using the (Linux) companion to enter the duration using the keyboard? I power through the form with the keyboard then the duration field slows me down with the mouse.

[Zubersoft]

When you say, "In the other app", do you mean the other instance of MobileSheets running on a separate device? Both devices need to have the same library, and if you are missing files for songs, or the songs entirely, it makes sense why a blank page was displayed.

As far as the two additional questions:

1) There are lots of metadata fields and you can enter any value you want in them. You could rename "Custom Group" to "Original Key" and store the value there if that is all you need.
2) If you right-click on the duration field, it will allow for direct keyboard entry. You can't currently trigger this behavior strictly with the keyboard though. I'll have to see if I can add some code so that, if the field is accessed by hitting the "Tab" key, that it will trigger that behavior automatically. Hitting enter will accept/persist the value once the time is entered.

Mike

[topdog91]

When you say, "In the other app", do you mean the other instance of MobileSheets

Oops, no, I meant in the app I was using prior to discovering MobileSheets.  So the question remains; should I enter the key in the Title field as well as in the Key field?

Perhaps I need to be clearer - I *expect* a blank page when I don't have a chart. But I'd still like a header or whatever with the song title, key, basic metadata. I can play Echo Beach without a chart but I still need to know that it's in the set rather than embarrassingly skipping to the next song.

Thanks for looking at the accessibility of the duration field; good to know about the right-click thing.

[Zubersoft]

The header will show up in the title bar if you tap the center of the screen to bring up the song overlay (or you have enabled Settings->Display Settings->Always Show the Title Bar). You can go to Settings->Library Settings->Song Title Formatting and adjust the format string to include key, i.e. %TITLE% - [%KEYS%]. You could also have key only show up if it's not blank, which would be %TITLE%%KEYS: - [${VALUE}]%.

Alternatively, you can put the %KEYS% in the caption field, and enable Settings->Display Settings->Show Caption in the Title Bar. 

Mike

[topdog91]

Fantastic, thank you! Lots to learn but this is great.

I guess always showing the title bar and adding the key to the song title will be what I'm looking for.

BTW, the companion add blank page button doesn't work for me. Known issue?

[Zubersoft]

Looks like I forgot to add some code for that. I'll fix it for the next update. Thanks!

Mike