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Alternative way of formatting ChordPro
#1
Someone suggested an alternative way to format ChordPro files. I must say it does have some charming benefits.

   

What do you think?
Johan
www.johanvromans.nlwww.hetgeluidvanseptember.nlwww.howsagoin.nl
Samsung Galaxy Note S4 (T830) 10.5", Android 9.0, AirTurn Duo & Digit.
Samsung Galaxy Note 2 (N8010) 10.1", Android 7.1.2 (LineageOS) (backup).
Samsung A3 (A320FL), Android 8.0 (emergency).
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#2
It reminds me somehow to the layout of "Sing Those Songs"
http://www.mediaversal.com/wesley/pdf/si...gs_a-f.pdf
I would not use it, I find it confusing that I had to change the focus of my eyes all the time from left to right and back. And it's less clear on which syllable the chords are changing than in the common "chords above lyrics" layout.
But others might like it...
first language: German
Acer A1-830, Android 4.4.2 - HP x2 210 G2 Detachable, Win 10 1803
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#3
Where are the 'benefits' in this layout?

I'm not a fan of Chordpro to start with, but this seems even less useful to me.
Graeme

1: Samsung 12.2" SM-P900: Android 5.0.2 
2: eSTAR GRAND HD Quad-Core 4G 10.2": Android 5.1 
3: Home-built BT pedal

Some of my music here
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#4
Citing my source:

Quote:In my experience, it's a better format than chords above lyrics as the performer can see the chord pattern (for the whole song) at a glance. It seems quicker to find chords too as you don't have to search for corresponding lyric line. Also, I mostly only need a reminder of either lyric or chords, rarely both together, which again I find far quicker with the columnar format below.
Johan
www.johanvromans.nlwww.hetgeluidvanseptember.nlwww.howsagoin.nl
Samsung Galaxy Note S4 (T830) 10.5", Android 9.0, AirTurn Duo & Digit.
Samsung Galaxy Note 2 (N8010) 10.1", Android 7.1.2 (LineageOS) (backup).
Samsung A3 (A320FL), Android 8.0 (emergency).
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#5
I, sort of, understand your source's point of view, but I don't really go along with it.

The whole point of any form of music presentation is to tell the player what to play and when.  I see the 'what' in this display, but absolutley no indication of the 'when'.  OK, one could argue that a musician should be able to hear when a change is going to happen, but this format would be totally useless to anyone who was unfamiliar with the piece.

At the end of the day, I'm happy for anyone to use what suits them best, but I would never want to be presented with this format.  I'm not that fond of being given a standard chordpro file, but at least I can make some sense of one.  In fact, if I have the time, I usually re-write any chordpro file that's been given to me as a proper chord chart, as that is a far more accurate representation of what is played when.
Graeme

1: Samsung 12.2" SM-P900: Android 5.0.2 
2: eSTAR GRAND HD Quad-Core 4G 10.2": Android 5.1 
3: Home-built BT pedal

Some of my music here
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#6
(05-25-2016, 06:40 PM)GraemeJ Wrote: The whole point of any form of music presentation is to tell the player what to play and when.  I see the 'what' in this display, but absolutley no indication of the 'when'.

Did you miss the fact that the syllables with chord changes are underlined?

Quote:I usually re-write any chordpro file that's been given to me as a proper chord chart, as that is a far more accurate representation of what is played when.

You are going to like the new ChordPro 'grid' feature...

   
Johan
www.johanvromans.nlwww.hetgeluidvanseptember.nlwww.howsagoin.nl
Samsung Galaxy Note S4 (T830) 10.5", Android 9.0, AirTurn Duo & Digit.
Samsung Galaxy Note 2 (N8010) 10.1", Android 7.1.2 (LineageOS) (backup).
Samsung A3 (A320FL), Android 8.0 (emergency).
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#7
Couldn't that also be the way to go for the guy who requested the "columnar format" that started this thread?
first language: German
Acer A1-830, Android 4.4.2 - HP x2 210 G2 Detachable, Win 10 1803
www.moonlightcrisis.de - www.basdjo.de - www.frankenbaend.de


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#8
(05-25-2016, 09:25 PM)sciurius Wrote:
(05-25-2016, 06:40 PM)GraemeJ Wrote: The whole point of any form of music presentation is to tell the player what to play and when.  I see the 'what' in this display, but absolutley no indication of the 'when'.

Did you miss the fact that the syllables with chord changes are underlined?

Not at all - but who wants to be looking right and left between the lyrics and the chords?  Plus, what happens when the change is in the middle of a word?

Quote:I usually re-write any chordpro file that's been given to me as a proper chord chart, as that is a far more accurate representation of what is played when.

You are going to like the new ChordPro 'grid' feature...

I'll pass judgement on that when I've seen it Wink 
Graeme

1: Samsung 12.2" SM-P900: Android 5.0.2 
2: eSTAR GRAND HD Quad-Core 4G 10.2": Android 5.1 
3: Home-built BT pedal

Some of my music here
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#9
Quote:
Quote:Did you miss the fact that the syllables with chord changes are underlined?

Not at all - but who wants to be looking right and left between the lyrics and the chords?  Plus, what happens when the change is in the middle of a word?

There should have been a gap in the underlining, but there was a buglet.

Anyway, there are many ways to skin a cat.

But you wrote earlier that you are not happy with ChordPro at all. What would it take to make you happy?
Johan
www.johanvromans.nlwww.hetgeluidvanseptember.nlwww.howsagoin.nl
Samsung Galaxy Note S4 (T830) 10.5", Android 9.0, AirTurn Duo & Digit.
Samsung Galaxy Note 2 (N8010) 10.1", Android 7.1.2 (LineageOS) (backup).
Samsung A3 (A320FL), Android 8.0 (emergency).
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#10
(05-26-2016, 04:17 PM)sciurius Wrote: But you wrote earlier that you are not happy with ChordPro at all. What would it take to make you happy?

I don't think there is anything that would make me happy with the format - I'm too old school Smile .  I've never understood tab, to my mind it's just as easy to learn standard notation - and a lot more useful.

I don't sing, so I don't need the lyrics, I'm quite happy to work with a top line and chords (or just a chord chart, for most things).
Graeme

1: Samsung 12.2" SM-P900: Android 5.0.2 
2: eSTAR GRAND HD Quad-Core 4G 10.2": Android 5.1 
3: Home-built BT pedal

Some of my music here
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#11
(05-26-2016, 07:19 PM)GraemeJ Wrote: I don't sing, so I don't need the lyrics, I'm quite happy to work with a top line and chords (or just a chord chart, for most things).

I don't sing either (usually) so I often create chort charts like the one attached. The little phrases in the left marging help me to stay in sync with the other musicians.

The chord charts that we envision for ChordPro are a simplified form of these charts. The main advantage is that they still can be transposed.


Attached Files
.pdf   A042_I'll_Be_There_For_You-ptb.pdf (Size: 3.83 KB / Downloads: 15)
Johan
www.johanvromans.nlwww.hetgeluidvanseptember.nlwww.howsagoin.nl
Samsung Galaxy Note S4 (T830) 10.5", Android 9.0, AirTurn Duo & Digit.
Samsung Galaxy Note 2 (N8010) 10.1", Android 7.1.2 (LineageOS) (backup).
Samsung A3 (A320FL), Android 8.0 (emergency).
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#12
I'm with GraemeJ.

I'm used to play the changes by "counting" not by listening to the text of the singer. Chord grids are much better (for the accompanist) if you are not familiar with the material. As I said before ChordPro is mostly for those who know the song quite well already.

If ChordPro could provide better information on the bars and the chord changes I'd like it better.

Johan, I like your sample of your chord chart though since it addresses these problems so I'm very interested in the development.

Is this something general for ChordPro or are you talking about a way to display it in MSP?
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#13
The PDF document that I attached to the previous posting is produced by playtab, a utility that I wrote many years ago.
See http://johan.vromans.org/software/sw_playtab.html (although my current version is a bit more ahead).

It would be very nice if MSPro were capable of using this native format to display charts, but that's simply too much to ask from Mike. Maybe in some future, when MSPro would support add-on modules I could write a formatter myself.

So the current alternative is to look for a way to enhance ChordPro with charts (we call them grids, since 'chord chart' is already very over-used). The attached document shows how this could look like. Since the implementation impact of this approach on MSPro is relatively minor, Mike has agreed to seriously consider this.


Attached Files
.pdf   grid2.pdf (Size: 68.1 KB / Downloads: 11)
.cho   grid2.cho (Size: 729 bytes / Downloads: 8)
Johan
www.johanvromans.nlwww.hetgeluidvanseptember.nlwww.howsagoin.nl
Samsung Galaxy Note S4 (T830) 10.5", Android 9.0, AirTurn Duo & Digit.
Samsung Galaxy Note 2 (N8010) 10.1", Android 7.1.2 (LineageOS) (backup).
Samsung A3 (A320FL), Android 8.0 (emergency).
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#14
In my opinion, this is a far better idea for development than the one which started this topic.

For me, the ability to instantly transpose is just about the only virtue that Chordpro has. Unfortunately this is far outweighed by, what I perceive, as its shortcomings.

I'm not sure why you would want to change the terminology to 'grid' - we all know what a chord chart is and I see no practical reason to give an established thing a different name.
Graeme

1: Samsung 12.2" SM-P900: Android 5.0.2 
2: eSTAR GRAND HD Quad-Core 4G 10.2": Android 5.1 
3: Home-built BT pedal

Some of my music here
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#15
Your goal is to see the structure of a song (measures, chords) at a glance. This is what I use very often, and that's why I developed the playtab tool.
For many other purposes, having the lyrics with chords above them is all that is required to sing and play.
As explained earlier, it is more likely to get a grids-enhanced ChordPro than support for a data format that is currently alien to MSPro.
May I invite you to share your ideas wrt grids-enhanced ChordPro as well as the playtab tool? Please send me your email via PM.
Johan
www.johanvromans.nlwww.hetgeluidvanseptember.nlwww.howsagoin.nl
Samsung Galaxy Note S4 (T830) 10.5", Android 9.0, AirTurn Duo & Digit.
Samsung Galaxy Note 2 (N8010) 10.1", Android 7.1.2 (LineageOS) (backup).
Samsung A3 (A320FL), Android 8.0 (emergency).
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