[amester1981]

Hello, 
I am a newbie to MobileSheets and busily getting ready to start using it for our string quartet. 
I have seen previous posts about making 'roles' so that in the future the viola player would have the viola part automatically appear when the 'leader' selects the violin 1 part. This sounds awesome. As I am currently setting up the file management from scratch, I wondered if I could 'get ready' for this feature by doing the following 

Currently I have files names such as 
Coldplay - Yellow Violin 1 
Coldplay - Yellow Violin 2 etc 

Should I insert the role into a custom field (e.g. Violin 1) so that when the new feature is rolled out, a player could select their role ? 
Would I need to change the file name to remove the role from the file name (which is how it is currently) 
E.g. four versions of 
Coldplay - Yellow


Currently I am anticipating having the role in the filename (that's how I have it stored as PDFs) and everyone just selects their own PDFs from their tablet. 

But in the future I love the idea of being able to use the leader-follower function and reduce the need for everyone to be searching through file names. 

All advice at this early stage is appreciated. 

Amy

[Geoff Bacon]

I'm guessing Mike will create a a new field for the role.

The main thing you should do is to make sure that every piece has your desired role in one of the fields.
When roles become available  you should be able to use a filter to put each person's pieces into their role.

The song names for each role would probably be identical on each tablet but I'm  guessing that you can use song id numbers if they are not identical i.e. the role is in the song name

There's a lot of guessing here!

Geoff

[Oz Cello]

Amy, I can't answer your question about how to best set up your tablets for the versioning feature but I have four tablets set up to use the leader-follower function for a string quartet so here are my thoughts.

This is what I do at the moment. I have the custom field renamed to 'instrument'. Each piece has a single pdf with all the parts for that piece. Each instrument has its own library with all the same pieces as the other libraries but with the page range of each piece chosen to just show the part for that instrument. The leader-follower function is set up to match on title name. For example I have a pdf called Coldplay Yellow with 8 pages, 2 for each instrument. The first violin library has an entry with the title Yellow with the page range showing the pages for the 1st violin part. The second violin library has the same entry with identical attributes (same title, same pdf file name) apart from the page range which shows the 2nd part. Same for viola and cello. I'm on cello and my tablet is leader. When I open Yellow it shows the cello part on my tablet and the other parts on their respective tablets.

I asked a while back about how to set up the library to make it easier to transition when the versioning update happens but that was a while ago and I don't think Mike knew how it was going to function at the time. I'm hoping that when the time comes I'll be able to take one of the libraries and just go through each piece setting the page range for each version. I'm thinking that might be easier with my setup because each library already has all 4 parts in each library entry but who knows.

For some pieces I have a trio and quartet version of the same piece. Sometimes a part will be the same whether it's trio or quartet and sometimes it's different so where it's different I'll need to work out how to use the versioning feature to be able to load the right version of the right part. How that's done will depend on how the versioning feature is implemented but I imagine there'll be more than one attribute linked to versions (meaning I'd be able to choose say, 2nd violin from one drop-down and say, trio from another and have the 2nd violin part in the arrangement for trio pop up) and if not then I guess I'll need two versions of 2nd violin - one for trio arrangements and one for quartet arrangements.

Most of the players I work with don't use MobileSheets other than on these tablets. At the moment that doesn't matter because with the leader-follower function operating, the other players only need a very basic understanding of how it works. I'm hoping that however the versioning feature is implemented it will be easy for me to select the version needed on a particular tablet at the start of the gig and then have a player who doesn't know the software use the tablet without there being a risk that they'll accidentally switch to the wrong version. At the moment I have filters showing on my tablet but hidden on the others - perhaps the method of choosing the version will also be hideable.

Guy

[amester1981]

Really interesting thank you! 

I currently have all parts very well organised as a different PDF for each part (and well labelled). It would be a big job for me to go through and combine the files back into one PDF, but perhaps this is a better solution in the longer term when it comes to adding new scores. 

Did it take you a long time to go through and input the pages for each role ? Did you use bookmarks ? 

My other concern to doing this is that it gives each player full access to all of the parts. I work with a lot of players and the library is 'valuable' to me and the quartet. Are you aware of any way to prevent people from downloading or exporting all the parts to a different device ?  Sounds like I don't trust my players, but it's not that as such, but just trying to think of the risks around doing it this way.

[Oz Cello]

I haven't tried using bookmarks to import the parts. With only 4 parts per pdf I'm not sure it would speed things up much for me but let me know if you find a good way of doing it. This is how I add a piece:
Open the cello library on one of the tablets
Import the piece from cloud storage
Set all the attributes for the piece
Repeat for any other pieces to be added
Share the pieces as an msf file to a local folder on the tablet
Switch libraries to the viola library
Import the msf file to the viola library
Edit the pieces so that the instrument is 'viola' instead of 'cello' and the page range is the viola part
Repeat for the violin libraries

I have a cloud folder for each library. Once the cello tablet is updated I sync the cloud folders to the tablet and then I sync the libraries in the other tablets to the cloud folder so that all the tablets have matching libraries. At the moment that means doing 16 syncs. That's much faster since Mike updated the way the sync works but I'm really looking forward to the versioning update which should bring it down to one sync per tablet.

I tried using the companion to import the pdfs but at the time I think the companion only had autocrop and I was needing to manually crop most of the pieces I was importing so I switched to doing it directly on the tablet and that works well.

I'm in the same situation as you with players and parts. I've been collecting arrangements for ages and they're a resource that I don't want to give away. A lot of the players I book have their own groups and their own folders and it wouldn't make sense for me to give them full access to copy my library just because they're playing the gig. That hasn't been much of an issue because I have the libraries on tablets that I own so players who could benefit from copying parts only have access to them at a gig, plus most of the players aren't familiar with the tablets (they're Onyx Boox e-ink tablets) or with MobileSheets. That's one of the reasons I was hoping that it would be possible with the versioning update to be able to hide the option to change versions - it would make it harder for a player who didn't know the app to accidentally get stuck in the wrong version, plus it would make it harder for someone who wanted a copy of an arrangement to just cycle through the parts and take a photo of each of them.

Mike, do you have any thoughts about ways of keeping parts secure in the app? I imagine it's not as much of an issue for improvising musicians but when the parts are fully written out they can be quite valuable and it can be important to not allow them to be shared or copied too easily. For example would it be possible for a tablet that was being used as a follower to be restricted from sharing/exporting parts or switching versions, or for there to be a setting in the app that restricted permissions for those functions?

Guy

[Skip]

Maybe setup guest accounts on the device[s]?

[Zubersoft]

I'm not sure if you are concerned about musicians synchronizing to a folder they shouldn't be able to modify, but you can control that with the read/write privileges on the folders. So that would take care of that, if that's an issue for you.

As far as keeping parts secure, I don't really have anything in place right now to restrict the sharing of parts, or prevent users from restoring a library backup with parts they shouldn't have access to, or anything of that sort. That starts venturing into a realm where one of a few things has to happen:

1) User accounts could be added to uniquely identify a user to understand what things they should have access to (which requires a ton of backend stuff). This is my least favorite approach.
2) An option would have to be added to password protect songs, preventing sharing or modification until the password is entered
3) File storage would have to be locked down hard to prevent users from having direct access to their files, as there is no way to prevent them from just copying the file out of the storage location otherwise. This kind of goes against the benefits of using Android though, and I imagine many users would not like this.
4) A new custom file type has to be supported that is a modification of a standard PDF to include permission information for what users can access the file, and how many times, if any, it should be allowed to be shared, and by which users. 

I'm not really sure what is the best solution for this. I'm open to hearing other ideas as well. I know some users have asked for an option to make a song "read-only", but unless it's password protected, it would still be easy enough for a user to make the song writeable again if they just toggled off the read-only setting.

Mike

[Oz Cello]

In my case the musicians don't have access to the backup folders so I'm not worried about players syncing to them. I'm also not too worried about protecting a whole library. Exporting a library takes a fair bit of time and bandwidth and is unlikely to be feasible during a gig.

What I had in mind was not making it too easy for a player to see the other parts of a piece they're playing, or to share the file for a piece which might contain all the parts both of which would make it much easier for a player to take a copy of all of the parts of an arrangement. If the versioning update makes it very obvious how to switch parts then a player who wanted to take a copy of a piece could just flick through the parts and take a photo of each. Being able to quickly switch between libraries could do the same thing. That's why I was suggesting that the switch for changing versions could be hideable in the same way the filters are.

If there's enough call for it then a better idea might be to have a mode that the app can be put in where it only functions as a follower - the ability to change versions, switch libraries, edit, share, sync, export, back up etc is restricted. Once a tablet is being used as a follower it doesn't really need those functions anyway and disabling them would help protect other parts from being copied and help users who don't know the app from accidentally ending up in the wrong version/setlist/library. Something like that would be useful to me and possibly OP but I don't know how many other users.

Guy

[amester1981]

In my case the musicians don't have access to the backup folders so I'm not worried about players syncing to them. I'm also not too worried about protecting a whole library. Exporting a library takes a fair bit of time and bandwidth and is unlikely to be feasible during a gig.

What I had in mind was not making it too easy for a player to see the other parts of a piece they're playing, or to share the file for a piece which might contain all the parts both of which would make it much easier for a player to take a copy of all of the parts of an arrangement. If the versioning update makes it very obvious how to switch parts then a player who wanted to take a copy of a piece could just flick through the parts and take a photo of each. Being able to quickly switch between libraries could do the same thing. That's why I was suggesting that the switch for changing versions could be hideable in the same way the filters are.

If there's enough call for it then a better idea might be to have a mode that the app can be put in where it only functions as a follower - the ability to change versions, switch libraries, edit, share, sync, export, back up etc is restricted. Once a tablet is being used as a follower it doesn't really need those functions anyway and disabling them would help protect other parts from being copied and help users who don't know the app from accidentally ending up in the wrong version/setlist/library. Something like that would be useful to me and possibly OP but I don't know how many other users.

Guy

[amester1981]

Hi OzCello, your replies have been very helpful, as has Mike's. I've taken a while to respond as I've been working through setting my libraries up. 
In order to be able to use follower / leader function , I ended up creating four separate folders for parts in Dropbox and giving each the same file name exactly. 
I have then created four libraries on my tablet, and batch imported each part's library from dropbox. Only done a test on my tablet and phone and it seems to work at bringing the part up if logged into the relevant library (e.g. logged into V1 Library on my phone brought up the cello part on the tablet, which was logged into the cello library. I'm pleased and it wasn't too painful renaming my files. 

Now I have another basic question. How do you manage syncing ? I have so far only batch imported from Dropbox. In order to then have a player easily able to sync against a folder to check for new repertoire added, do I need to effectively have one tablet that I back up and then keep that tablet updated, and backed up, and the others sync against that tablet's backup ? I think this may be what you meant by 16 syncs, but I'm not completely sure. 

Can't wait to roll this out to the quartet, but some are a bit tech adverse so I am keen to have all the answers up my sleeve first :-)

[Oz Cello]

Hey, glad to hear it's working. What you've suggested for syncing is basically what I do, except that MobileSheets distinguishes between 'back-ups' and 'syncs' and I would recommend that you use the sync feature rather than the back-up feature for what you're trying to achieve.

The main difference is that backing up copies the entire library to the back-up location (and then if you do a restore it replaces the library you have with the entire library in the back-up) whereas the sync feature compares what's on the device being synced with the device/cloud folder it's being synced to and only changes the files that are different or new. The fact that it's not replacing the whole library means that the sync can be much faster than a complete back-up. Syncing is accessed from the library page whereas backing up is accessed from the settings. Doing a back-up creates a single .msb file but doing a sync creates a folder structure the same as the one used on the original device - each piece has its own folder which contains the pdfs etc used for that piece.

The sync feature also gives you a lot more control over with attributes are updated - for example you can choose to include annotations in the update or not, and you can choose to delete parts from the device being synced if they're not present in the source folder, and you can choose to only update parts that are already in the library (i.e. not add any new parts from the source folder), etc etc.

The reason I do 16 syncs is that I keep 4 tablets up to date and they all have the libraries for all 4 instruments.

So my advice is that you do what you suggested, but use the sync feature for each step rather than the back-up feature. Keep a tablet yourself which has all four libraries. When you're happy with the way that tablet is set up, do an initial sync of each of the libraries to its own cloud folder. The first sync will take a while because it will need to copy every database, folder and file to the cloud. Then whenever you make any changes such as adding a new arrangement, add each part to its library on your tablet, then sync any library you've made a change to to its respective cloud folder. You can then give each player the link to the cloud folder that has the parts for their instrument. They will only have access to the files you've put in the library that's synced to the cloud folder they have a link to. You'll need to make sure that when you sync to the cloud folders from your tablet, you have the app set so that it's changing the files in the cloud to match the files on your device, then your players will need to do the opposite - they'll set the sync up so that it is updating the files on their devices to match the files in the cloud.

Let me know if any of that doesn't make sense. Guy

[amester1981]

Thank you - I am getting ready to do a sync from each tablet, and then test how easy it is to re-sync on other devices etc. 

Except this afternoon has thrown a new spanner in the works to my whole grand plan, which maybe you or Mike can help with! 

My intention had been to have a device that has all four libraries on it (like you do Guy), so that I can switch between them depending on which instrument is being played. 

I successfully batch imported from Dropbox the files for V1 in a library named V1
I then created a second library called V2, and batch imported the files from Dropbox into the V2 Library on Mobile sheets. 

However, when I then look back at the V1 Library, the V2 parts are in there. 

I have used the same file names for the different parts and keep those in different folders in Dropbox. I hoped to be able to use the same file names so that the follower-leader function worked. I think this is slightly different to how you have set it up Guy isn't it.

Is the answer to have only one library on each tablet (rather than trying to have a 'master' tablet with all on them which I was intending to use as the syncing tablet) 

Is there any way to have four libraries where the file name is the same, but the content of the file is relevant to that part?

Still so much to work through ! :-) All help appreciated sooo much 

Amy

[mdavej]

I don’t understand the multiple libraries, but I just use different collections for different parts. I have at least 5000 parts for about a dozen instruments across a dozen or so bands. Each collection consists of the band name and part name. Each file is in the appropriate collection. Then I simply filter by collection when building set lists or playing tunes at rehearsals.

[amester1981]

I don’t understand the multiple libraries, but I just use different collections for different parts. I have at least 5000 parts for about a dozen instruments across a dozen or so bands. Each collection consists of the band name and part name. Each file is in the appropriate collection. Then I simply filter by collection when building set lists or playing tunes at rehearsals.

Thanks Dave, 
And are you able to use the Follower / Leader function using this approach ? I assume not as each file I think has the part name in it that is different. I'm REALLY trying to make this work to have parts that are different but having the same file name so that follower / leader works. 

I'm really hoping Mike can help with this as I am so close, but yet so far :-)

[Zubersoft]

The reason you are running into this issue is because I don't currently support an option to keep the file storage separate between libraries. They all share the same storage location. So if you import different versions of files with the same name into each library, you will just overwrite one version of the file with another. Adding support for "isolating library storage" is on my list of things to do in the next 2-4 months (the sooner the better of course). In the meantime, you will have to use different filenames for each library. As long as the song titles match between libraries, the leader/follower feature will work just fine. You can also use other fields to match up songs even if the titles don't match such as Song ID or the custom field. When song versioning is released (sometime next year), that will also provide a way to handle all of this with just a single library.

The other option (which you won't probably like very much), is to use a single library, and just backup/restore each time you want to switch libraries instead of using the switch library feature. This will be tedious to manage, but would get around the current limitations.

Mike