[oyvind@siriusstudio.no]

Hi.

I recently bought a Surface pro 4 i5 4GB ram 128 gb ssd hoping to replace my iPad running ForScore. My iPad was too small, and I like the idea of also having a pc at hand while in a score reading situation. So now I downloaded MobileSheets. But the app is "lagging". That is, when I turn the page, either by touch or by AirTurn, the page sometimes doesn't turn at all, or turn half the page, waits a second, and then turns over. This is unacceptable for me, since I need to turn the pages quickly and trust that the page is going to turn when I ask it to. The Surface is newly reseted, and I have not filled it with other apps. MobileSheets can be the only app running, but still the problem occurs. Any Idea what the problem might be? Is MobileSheets not reliable when it comes to accurate page turning (I never had this issues with ForScore, even on an old iPad)? Is the Surface not strong enough, or not enough memory? I'm stuck...

[Zubersoft]

Hello,

That definitely should not be happening. I've run MobileSheets on lower end hardware without experiencing slowdown with page turns. I certainly don't experience those issues my Surface Pro 4 (my main testing device), although my Surface Pro has 8 GB of ram (not sure how significant that is). So there are a number of things to investigate:

1) What battery mode are you currently running in? If you are running in a battery saver mode, if you switch to balanced/recommended or high performance, does the problem go away?
2) If you plug in the device, is the issue the same?
3) What kinds of files are you loading (pdf, chord pro, images, etc)? Is the problem the same regardless of the file you test with? Is this happening when loading a setlist, individual songs, or both?
4) Are you testing with the device in portrait orientation or landscape? I only ask as the landscape orientation with the single page display renders a much larger image, using more RAM.

Hopefully we can figure this out so you can use the app without any reservations.

Thanks,
Mike

EDIT:
One more question - are you running in tablet mode or desktop mode? I've found myself using desktop mode most of the time while testing.

[oyvind@siriusstudio.no]

Thanks for replying, Mike.

I have tested all the things on your list except using another file format (I am using pdf's) but it is still lagging. Looking at Device manager, I can see that MS uses between 300-700 Mb of ram. The meter is at 50-80% but never goes to 100%. Could it still be that 4 Gb is not enough memory for page turning? If that is the case, I have to try to make Windows use less memory. This was easier in previous versoins of Windows, but I guess it still is possible. I also use quite big pdf's (2-15 Mb). Could this be the reason (my old iPad never had problems with these files...)

Fosnes

[Zubersoft]

Fosnes,

You can try going to Settings->Display Settings->Render Preference and change it to "Speed" instead of "Quality". That should use less RAM I believe. I have tested on a device with 4 GB of RAM, so I don't think that's the issue. I'd be happy to test with one your PDFs if you want to send it to mike@zubersoft.com. Different PDF libraries can have drastically different results with processing PDFs. It's possible those PDFs are loading very slowly with the library used with the "Quality" setting.  Apple provides a PDF library to developers on the iOS platform, whereas Google and Microsoft do not.  So results are going to vary between the PDF processing on iOS versus other platforms.

Thanks,
Mike

UPDATE:
While loading various small PDFs on my machine, I never see RAM usage go much above about 160-170 MB. I definitely think there is an issue with those PDFs that MobileSheets isn't handling well. Please send me one for testing if you get a chance. While loading a 448 page PDF (a real book) that is about 120 MB, I see RAM  usage go up to about 320 MB. If I switch to the "Speed" PDF library, it drops to about 194 MB.

[oyvind@siriusstudio.no]

Hi Mike, and thank you for your time.

I tried the rendering option, and it is much better. The page does not stop half the way now, but it still has a tiny "lag". The ram usage is now around 200-300 mb. I sent you two pdf's. These pdf's are made from my HP scanner. 

Fosnes

[Geoff Bacon]

Just thoughts:

Have you scanned them at too high resolution?
One can usually make a pdf smaller by sticking it through another package (but I can't remember which one)

Geoff

[oyvind@siriusstudio.no]

That might be the case, Geoff. But since there were no problems with the iPad, i have found a resolution that fits me - I think it is 200 dpi. I can try lower, but that will make the notes less readable, I think.

Fosnes

[Zubersoft]

Fosnes,

I tested with the files you sent me (thanks for that) on both my PC and my Surface Pro 4. The songs load immediately and page turns are instant without any delays at all. I then tested the files again on an ASUS Transformer Book T101HA which has 4 GB of ram and an Intel Atom x5 @ 1.44 Ghz. The songs loaded, and if I gave it just a second to buffer the pages, then turning through pages was fluid without any delays. So I'm not sure why your device, which should be more powerful than the Asus device I tested on, is experiencing worse performance. I should mention that I tested the above with the "Quality" setting, so it would be even faster if I switched the render preference. 

As a side note, are you turning pages the second the song loads? Or are you waiting for a few seconds to let the pages buffer, then turn through them? I just want to ensure the delay you are experiencing isn't just because you are trying to turn through pages as they are still being rendered. If you experience delays even after letting the pages buffer, then I think there are some settings you might need to adjust on your device to get better performance. Perhaps try running without WiFi to prevent background processes (like Windows updates). If you've been testing with bluetooth, try testing without that to see if there is some impact there.  If you haven't installed the latest Windows 10 updates, definitely do that. Hopefully we can figure out how to improve the performance for you with a few changes.

Mike

[oyvind@siriusstudio.no]

Hi again, Mike.

I now tried some more, but still there is a delay in the page turning. I switched off the page turning graphics, and that might have helped some, but still... When I turn the page, either by touch or by the left button - sometimes the page doesn't turn at all and sometimes there is an annoying delay. I need a system that is totally reliable, so my conclusion is, sadly, that I have to go back to iPad. When I see at memory usage now, it is not higher than 50-60%, so this should not be any problem. I also tried moving my pdfs to an SD-card and read them from there, but same problem.

[Zubersoft]

Hello Fosnes,

I'm sorry I wasn't able to find anything to adjust to help with the lagging you are seeing. Without knowing exactly what is causing those kinds of delays on your device, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. I have no idea what part of the code to analyze further because it could be operations locking up the UI thread on your device, background threads taking longer than they should for rendering and other operations, Windows operations in the background slowing down MobileSheets, unoptimized settings on your device, etc. The fact that I loaded the same files as you on a very slow device without the same symptoms makes it even harder to know where to look. I hate for you to have to go back to an iPad, but I'm not sure what part of my application to change to address this problem when it doesn't occur on any of the five computers/devices I've tested on.  If anyone else is experiencing this same kind of slowdown, please let me know. In the future, I may consider going to rendering the sheet music and other components with DirectX, which could speed up the rendering at the cost of extra energy being used (which would result in the battery draining faster). Even if I make that change, I don't know if that has anything to do with the slowdown you are seeing. 

Thanks,
Mike

[oyvind@siriusstudio.no]

Hi Mike.

I hate it too. I never was an Apple fan, so I really wanted this to work. Actually, there was a bid windows update yesterday, which seem to have speeded up the turning a bit. Anyway, I will try some more at least until I get a good bid for my Surface. Maybe I will get used to it. The most important thing for me, is to rely on the page turning when I have pressed the button. This is more important than if the turning sometimes is a bit slow.

But still, congratulations with a great app. You do have gained a great reputation, both with the app and with the user service. If I should suggest a thing for the future, it would be to make the ability to straighten/deskew the pages. My automatic HP scanner, tends to turn the pages one or two degrees, so I would very much like to see that option.

Thanks
Øyvind

[Steve H]

I'm hopeful that it's not totally wrong to extend this thread after 5+ years but I have bumped up against a problem very like this. To wit, it is duet music needing a landscape 2-page view. Reading in this thread, I am ready to ask a specific question that relates to the nature of the problem I am having.

The behavior I see is that the left-hand page loads instantly but the right-hand page has about a 1.5-second delay. So. My question is, do you buffer only one page in advance?? It would explain everything about the serious problem I'm having if that is the case.

[Zubersoft]

MobileSheets caches up to 9 pages in memory, but depending on the file, the speed to render each page can differ greatly between PDFs. If it's a well-optimized PDF, it should load nearly instantly, but I've seen some PDFs that are poorly constructed that can take several seconds per page. If the PDF is rebuilt with a tool like Adobe Acrobat, then it will load immediately. If you use the image correction feature on the PDF, that will rebuild it and may fix your load times (you can find this on the files tab of the song editor). You can also try going to Settings->Display Settings and switching the "Render Preference" setting to see if that has an impact, as it will switch which PDF library is used.

Mike

[Steve H]

I would have attached the PDF file I loaded except that my unlimited attachment quota does not allow for a 2.7MB attachment. I believe I am seeing evidence that the second page it is to load has not been cached no matter what you may believe. Why do I say this? Every time I advance two pages the left page loads instantly but the right page takes about 1 1/2 seconds when both pages should behave identically. Further proof: back up to the previous two pages and BOTH pages load instantly (it still had the previous two pages cached). Back up a second time and the right page loads instantly but the left page now takes that interminable interval (it only had the previous page cached).

Honestly I believe that you reflexively relied on all the answers you gave previously in this thread rather than looking more deeply at what I was reporting.

[Steve H]

Mike, I confess I was peeved that you simply repeated previous advice when I had a smoking gun that caching was not taking place as you described it. Image correction does improve matters considerably although it still seems clumsy that the engine is not loading two pages at a time when it must display two pages at a time. That means that even after image correction if I outpace the caching I still see the right (when advancing) or the left (when backing up) page lag.

Rather than cache specifically 10 pages maximum, perhaps allow for a cache size? I use this Chromebook for nothing else so I wouldn't mind giving over 2-3 of its 4GB to cache. In that event, I doubt this conversation would have ever arisen. (Although because I appreciate efficiency generally I am glad to have become acquainted with image correction.)